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	<title>Comments on: Contrat Premiere Embauche (French Labour Law)</title>
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	<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/</link>
	<description>An eclectic mix of technology, news comment, and personal notes.</description>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/comment-page-1/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caperet.com/?p=113#comment-421</guid>
		<description>Actually what I am seeing from the media, an perhaps I expressed myself poorly, is that by eliminating the just cause clause employers will be more willing to hire thus reducing youth unemployment.

My experience is just the opposite. Changing the law does not reduce &quot;real unemployment&quot; it merely gives the perception that the percentage is falling. It also has the unintended consequence of reducing wages and encourages employers to reduce labor in lean times instead of becoming more productive. When business picks up they then pay premiums for employees causing serious exagerations in the normal employment scene, that is what goes on here in the US.

There are changes that need to be made in the labor laws, I think this particular one is of little positive consequence and most likely will cause the government to fall, as we say &quot;political suicide&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually what I am seeing from the media, an perhaps I expressed myself poorly, is that by eliminating the just cause clause employers will be more willing to hire thus reducing youth unemployment.</p>
<p>My experience is just the opposite. Changing the law does not reduce &#8220;real unemployment&#8221; it merely gives the perception that the percentage is falling. It also has the unintended consequence of reducing wages and encourages employers to reduce labor in lean times instead of becoming more productive. When business picks up they then pay premiums for employees causing serious exagerations in the normal employment scene, that is what goes on here in the US.</p>
<p>There are changes that need to be made in the labor laws, I think this particular one is of little positive consequence and most likely will cause the government to fall, as we say &#8220;political suicide&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/comment-page-1/#comment-420</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caperet.com/?p=113#comment-420</guid>
		<description>David

It&#039;ll be interesting to see how things pan out. &lt;a href=&quot;http://viewitaly.blogspot.com/2006/03/question-of-culture-france-and-popular.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Your article&lt;/a&gt; takes an interesting perspective. It seems that the US media view is that youth unemployment will increase based on the new CPE law? 

You are right about the balance and I hope it will swing back in the right direction. 

-Fruey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David</p>
<p>It&#8217;ll be interesting to see how things pan out. <a href="http://viewitaly.blogspot.com/2006/03/question-of-culture-france-and-popular.html" rel="nofollow">Your article</a> takes an interesting perspective. It seems that the US media view is that youth unemployment will increase based on the new CPE law? </p>
<p>You are right about the balance and I hope it will swing back in the right direction. </p>
<p>-Fruey</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/comment-page-1/#comment-417</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Mar 2006 16:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caperet.com/?p=113#comment-417</guid>
		<description>You may know that I am apolitical, in that I do not support either left or right policies or programs. I look at things on an individual basis and I think that this could be a serious problem for the future. 

The same loopholes exist in Italy and the referendum was attempted under Berlusconi.

I would hope that the labour laws could be modified to get rid of the more egregious problems such as having to hire a certain number of disabled, registering in each province, costs to reduce labor in case of true corporate difficulty, and firing for just cause.

I do believe you are correct in your analogy to 1968. I do not like many of the things that came out of 1968 but these things go in cycles, you exagerate to one side then to the other. Eventually, over time, you have a happy medium.

This is the great thing about Europe, they have been around long enough to understand &quot;balance&quot;.

David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may know that I am apolitical, in that I do not support either left or right policies or programs. I look at things on an individual basis and I think that this could be a serious problem for the future. </p>
<p>The same loopholes exist in Italy and the referendum was attempted under Berlusconi.</p>
<p>I would hope that the labour laws could be modified to get rid of the more egregious problems such as having to hire a certain number of disabled, registering in each province, costs to reduce labor in case of true corporate difficulty, and firing for just cause.</p>
<p>I do believe you are correct in your analogy to 1968. I do not like many of the things that came out of 1968 but these things go in cycles, you exagerate to one side then to the other. Eventually, over time, you have a happy medium.</p>
<p>This is the great thing about Europe, they have been around long enough to understand &#8220;balance&#8221;.</p>
<p>David</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/comment-page-1/#comment-416</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Mar 2006 15:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caperet.com/?p=113#comment-416</guid>
		<description>Hi David,

There is a brewing crisis indeed. Students are already causing big problems, and louts have jumped in with their cause as an excuse to attack the police and public buildings.

It&#039;s particularly difficult to make changes to labour laws which will make workers more vulnerable. Acquired rights should not be given up. However, loopholes in temporary contract law and interim status mean that with or without the CPE the young unemployed will be &quot;disposable&quot; and uncertain about their future until they have established themselves.

International right wing pressure will cause socialist principles to face difficult challenges as the global economy becomes more and more capitalist. Ultimately, if you want to keep social rights and full employment, you have to stop buying cheap imported goods from extremely capitalist factories in emerging economies. Protesting against harsh economic reality just stops any plans the government may have from working.

I&#039;m not sure about referenda on this kind of subject. Parties should include clear proposals on labour law reform in their manifesto and get elected on that basis. The devil is in the details - many protesters are outraged over untruths and false interpretations of what labour laws actually cover in France. 

After all, The French did eliminate the main socialist candidate Lionel Jospin in the last presidential elections, in favour of Jean-Marie Le Pen&#039;s nationalist party. So there was no choice but to go for a massive move to the right by voting Chirac and his right wing cronies. Democracy has already spoken... we&#039;re just seeing another re-run of the French penchant for protesting in the streets, albeit on a scale not seen since 1968. If only the left wing could reunite behind a common manifesto instead of all the infighting we&#039;ve been seeing for years, then maybe they could pull a majority from the popular vote... perhaps &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/12/tribun/fiches_id/2650.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ségolène Royal&lt;/a&gt; will become the first woman socialist to head up the state?

-Fruey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David,</p>
<p>There is a brewing crisis indeed. Students are already causing big problems, and louts have jumped in with their cause as an excuse to attack the police and public buildings.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s particularly difficult to make changes to labour laws which will make workers more vulnerable. Acquired rights should not be given up. However, loopholes in temporary contract law and interim status mean that with or without the CPE the young unemployed will be &#8220;disposable&#8221; and uncertain about their future until they have established themselves.</p>
<p>International right wing pressure will cause socialist principles to face difficult challenges as the global economy becomes more and more capitalist. Ultimately, if you want to keep social rights and full employment, you have to stop buying cheap imported goods from extremely capitalist factories in emerging economies. Protesting against harsh economic reality just stops any plans the government may have from working.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure about referenda on this kind of subject. Parties should include clear proposals on labour law reform in their manifesto and get elected on that basis. The devil is in the details &#8211; many protesters are outraged over untruths and false interpretations of what labour laws actually cover in France. </p>
<p>After all, The French did eliminate the main socialist candidate Lionel Jospin in the last presidential elections, in favour of Jean-Marie Le Pen&#8217;s nationalist party. So there was no choice but to go for a massive move to the right by voting Chirac and his right wing cronies. Democracy has already spoken&#8230; we&#8217;re just seeing another re-run of the French penchant for protesting in the streets, albeit on a scale not seen since 1968. If only the left wing could reunite behind a common manifesto instead of all the infighting we&#8217;ve been seeing for years, then maybe they could pull a majority from the popular vote&#8230; perhaps <a href="http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/12/tribun/fiches_id/2650.asp" rel="nofollow">Ségolène Royal</a> will become the first woman socialist to head up the state?</p>
<p>-Fruey</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/comment-page-1/#comment-414</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Mar 2006 14:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caperet.com/?p=113#comment-414</guid>
		<description>Simon,

I wrote an article on this because it translates to Italy and what I see can be future difficulties in the US.

I was somewhat amazed that the PM tried to do this as a law instead of trying a referendum. This same type of proposal was attempted in Italy 3 years ago. By popular vote was defeated rather significantly. It seems that the PM might have learned something from the Italian experience.

Changes need to be made in the labor laws, but I do not believe this is the best road to follow. I could easily see the proposal eliminated and perhaps a &quot;Crisi di Governo&quot; over this proposal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon,</p>
<p>I wrote an article on this because it translates to Italy and what I see can be future difficulties in the US.</p>
<p>I was somewhat amazed that the PM tried to do this as a law instead of trying a referendum. This same type of proposal was attempted in Italy 3 years ago. By popular vote was defeated rather significantly. It seems that the PM might have learned something from the Italian experience.</p>
<p>Changes need to be made in the labor laws, but I do not believe this is the best road to follow. I could easily see the proposal eliminated and perhaps a &#8220;Crisi di Governo&#8221; over this proposal.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/comment-page-1/#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 07:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caperet.com/?p=113#comment-410</guid>
		<description>Aidan,

It is rather odd, a spinoff of the complicated French labour laws that already exist. Basically this new contract is, in theory, supposed to help you if you&#039;re under 26 and unemployed you have a hard time finding a permanent contract. Employers can take more risks on a borderline candidate knowing that they aren&#039;t locked in to a permanent contract. 

Let&#039;s not forget that if you&#039;ve worked somewhere a few months, the onus is on the employer to prove unsuitability for a job on serious grounds. In the UK or US, I have seen people get sacked on fairly subjective grounds. That cannot happen in France.

My take, as explained in the post, is that with youth unemployment as high as it is, perhaps this kind of initiative could work. If it doesn&#039;t, then get rid of it.

-Fruey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aidan,</p>
<p>It is rather odd, a spinoff of the complicated French labour laws that already exist. Basically this new contract is, in theory, supposed to help you if you&#8217;re under 26 and unemployed you have a hard time finding a permanent contract. Employers can take more risks on a borderline candidate knowing that they aren&#8217;t locked in to a permanent contract. </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not forget that if you&#8217;ve worked somewhere a few months, the onus is on the employer to prove unsuitability for a job on serious grounds. In the UK or US, I have seen people get sacked on fairly subjective grounds. That cannot happen in France.</p>
<p>My take, as explained in the post, is that with youth unemployment as high as it is, perhaps this kind of initiative could work. If it doesn&#8217;t, then get rid of it.</p>
<p>-Fruey</p>
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		<title>By: Aidan</title>
		<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/comment-page-1/#comment-409</link>
		<dc:creator>Aidan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Mar 2006 02:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caperet.com/?p=113#comment-409</guid>
		<description>&quot;Precarite&quot; - nope, never heard it before, but I think I&#039;ll try to shoehorn it into conversation. Newly-made-up, or mis(or-not-at-all)translated words, there has to be a happy place for them at certain moments...
That new French contract law does look, at least initially, rather odd and disorienting, though of course I&#039;m clueless as to the background working circumstances over there. Just seems intriguing as to why, or at least how long in the planning, this amendment was being made. How soon, and widely, do you think it will actually affect many?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Precarite&#8221; &#8211; nope, never heard it before, but I think I&#8217;ll try to shoehorn it into conversation. Newly-made-up, or mis(or-not-at-all)translated words, there has to be a happy place for them at certain moments&#8230;<br />
That new French contract law does look, at least initially, rather odd and disorienting, though of course I&#8217;m clueless as to the background working circumstances over there. Just seems intriguing as to why, or at least how long in the planning, this amendment was being made. How soon, and widely, do you think it will actually affect many?</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/comment-page-1/#comment-408</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Mar 2006 19:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caperet.com/?p=113#comment-408</guid>
		<description>Sedulia,

Great to see you making your comment début here!

I &quot;trackbacked&quot; your article but it seems there is no link from here automatically generated, so &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ruerude.com/2006/03/huge_demonstrat.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here is the article on CPE on Rue Rude&lt;/a&gt;. 

I think a better translation of &quot;précarité&quot; would be &quot;insecurity&quot;, &quot;instability&quot; or &quot;uncertainty&quot; because precariousness makes me think of someone wobbling on a high wall trying not to look down. Maybe that&#039;s just me!

-Fruey</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sedulia,</p>
<p>Great to see you making your comment début here!</p>
<p>I &#8220;trackbacked&#8221; your article but it seems there is no link from here automatically generated, so <a href="http://www.ruerude.com/2006/03/huge_demonstrat.html" rel="nofollow">here is the article on CPE on Rue Rude</a>. </p>
<p>I think a better translation of &#8220;précarité&#8221; would be &#8220;insecurity&#8221;, &#8220;instability&#8221; or &#8220;uncertainty&#8221; because precariousness makes me think of someone wobbling on a high wall trying not to look down. Maybe that&#8217;s just me!</p>
<p>-Fruey</p>
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		<title>By: helen white</title>
		<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/comment-page-1/#comment-404</link>
		<dc:creator>helen white</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:54:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caperet.com/?p=113#comment-404</guid>
		<description>Will check that old Larousse - it was actually my great-grandmother&#039;s - she was born in 1870 something!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will check that old Larousse &#8211; it was actually my great-grandmother&#8217;s &#8211; she was born in 1870 something!</p>
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		<title>By: Sedulia</title>
		<link>http://www.caperet.com/2006/03/contrat-premiere-embauche-french-labour-law/comment-page-1/#comment-403</link>
		<dc:creator>Sedulia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Mar 2006 08:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.caperet.com/?p=113#comment-403</guid>
		<description>I actually looked up précarité when I translated the article... I didn&#039;t think it was an English word, but I&#039;ve been here too long, and sometimes get a bit confused over French vs English versions of a word. The real translation is precariousness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually looked up précarité when I translated the article&#8230; I didn&#8217;t think it was an English word, but I&#8217;ve been here too long, and sometimes get a bit confused over French vs English versions of a word. The real translation is precariousness.</p>
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